Curse

helpmepls · May 31, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Hey i just started playing guild wars (coming over from WoW) and there are so many different options of classes that i can make. Basically my end game goal is to PvP (GvG mainly but random arenas and team arenas for fun) and i want a class that is top notch in PvP.

Now before you say there is no "best" there usually are classes that have the "advantage" over most classes (NOT ALL) because RPG's are hard to balance completely. I want a class that is a Damage dealer with good survivability (preferably caster but still tell me if warriors are the best or assassins etc) that basically is a all around owner! thanks for the help

helpmepls · May 31, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

bump....

CrispyCritter · May 31, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

There is no best class, but if you want a damage dealer with survivability you're looking at a warrior. They have the best DPS and the best armor, and almost every guild runs warriors in GvG unless they're running some kind of spike.

dansamy · May 31, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Since GW is largely a team game, the classes are pretty well balanced for their roles within a team setting. Best dps with highest survivability is a warrior. After saying that though, there's no lack of warrior counter in the game.

helpmepls · May 31, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

what about a class besides a warrior lets say a caster/ranger wats the best dmg one out of those

Thom · May 31, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Don't play and elementalist, mesmer or assassin. Elementalists are very situational as endgame characters who are somewhat flawed from a design stand point; they appear to be a damage class but are most useful as a utility class. Mesmers, along with assassins and ritualists, are designed for advanced players in many ways. A mesmer is nearly unstoppable in the hands of a good player and extremely useful in PvP, but they are just frustrating if played poorly. Assassins can be good and will kill as quickly as any single character in the game, but their PvP value is overshadowed by warriors and they are difficult to play well.

Monks: A good choice for any player, but they are a support class. A good way to learn the game and easily the most used PvP class. Even if you don't want to play a support class you should consider a monk.

Warriors: Best PvP damage and survivablity. Relatively straight forward to play. PvP warriors and PvE warriors are extremely different in playing style, which leads to much complaining about warrior/monk noobs. Probably the best fit, but you may not enjoy the playing style. The game is balanced enough to choose a caster class for a more comfortable playing style.

Rangers/Necros/Ritualists: All excellent in the damage and survivablity catagory. Largely will provide support damage. All three classes are very versitile and fill a slot between pure damage and pure utility(mesmers). The playing styles of the classes is vastly different, but the largely fill the same niche. Ritualists are more support and can double as a healer, but their offense is formidable. Rangers play an incredibly wide variety of primary offensive and offense support roles, but they are excellent disruption characters as well. The "problem" with rangers is that they suffer enough of the same weaknesses as warriors that they can have problems with a teams defensive strategy. Necros damage isn't as powerful, but it is different from warriors that teams aren't always prepared for it. The recent championship team played a gimmick build with several necros and rituals. All three classes will always have a tweener role, but they will also never compare to warriors or mesmers at doing their respective jobs.

I think you would enjoy a Necro most.

Byron · May 31, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

First of all, I would strongly consider reading this thread: WoW PvPer needs some questions answered. It's a smiliar thread where points were brought up by a lot of GW veterans.

I would advise finding what you enjoy most to specialize in. If you plan to get into highly competitive play, you'll likely be identified as specializing in a class or two, so your specialization should be what you like best to play. For example, if you're like me, and you get thrills out of killing power, elect to go gung-ho warrior.

As for class selection, the only class that is always in demand is monk. That said, monk is the hardest position to play, and it only gets harder the higher in the PvP food-chain you go. IMO, monk is the supreme skill position, and becoming a good monk will make other classes seem easier.

Second perhaps is warrior; yes, there are a billion wammos out there in PvE land, but a solid PvP warrior is more rare and much more respected. All balanced builds and many other builds seem to accomodate for at least one warrior.

I would avoid becoming a full-time assassin. Personally, even with AoD, I don't see the assassin's superiority over a warrior, they being less reliable damage outputs and easier to kill. Same goes for ranger - their uses are many, but I would say most builds (outside of HA) do not accomodate for a ranger. And if they do, it's highly specialized anyway(eg = crip/apply runner).

**EDIT = just found out AoD took a heavy hit in recharge time. Warriors are still king of the hill.

dansamy · May 31, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Truthfully, you can break it down into a few commonly pigeon-holed groups:

Melee damage dealers: Warriors and Assassins
Ranged physical damage: Rangers
Casters: Ele, Necro, Mes, Rit and Monk. The 1st three are more often used in an offensive capacity. The last two are usually support/defensive. Ele is frequently swapped back and forth from offense to support/utility.

Xanthar · May 31, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

I think that you need to rethink the question a bit. It's not "classes" (they are called "professions" here

) that are important in this game, but skill builds - How you utilize them and how the skills you choose fit into the overall strategy of your team. This is why people keep banging on about that there is no best class.

There are a few builds that are common knowledge, and that you might want to look at initially - Shock Warrior, Air Spiker, Bunny Thumper, Touch Ranger, Boon Prot, Surge Burner etc. These can serve as a guideline to what playstyle you like and hence direct your choice of prefessions.

Otherwise, my tip would be to get some PvE in and use the unlocks and (somewhat irrelevant) experience you get from that to start tweaking known builds to your liking. Remeber - PvP chars have access to all your unlocks and you can reroll them as often as you like in any combination of professions

helpmepls · May 31, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

mesmer (from what tom said) seems rather intruiging. i like playing tough characters with massive potential because when mastered your unstoppable...what does a mesmer mainly do? and wat r some top pvp builds

The Real Roy Keane · May 31, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I think you're getting the impression that by calling Mesmers 'unstoppable' Thom was suggesting that they can defeat entire teams single handedly, which couldn't be further from the truth. Mesmers are poor as a direct damage class; you'll struggle to kill anything unaided. What Mesmers do is stop other characters from perfoming their roles to their full effect; whether it be through energy denial, interrupting, or debilitating hexes.

Ensign · May 31, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpmepls

what about a class besides a warrior lets say a caster/ranger wats the best dmg one out of those

Necromancer. I'll warn you that it doesn't feel like a damage dealer though, because it's always coming through other vehicles, be it your minions, orders buffing up your teammates, or (best case), the disease clouds and degen that you're infecting the other team with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Mesmers are poor as a direct damage class; you'll struggle to kill anything unaided.

I disagree - of the caster classes, a Mind Wracker has perhaps the strongest solo killing ability of any of them - though it is a bit fragile. On the other hand, a properly build illusion mesmer is perhaps the strongest dueling caster in terms of both survival and killing power. Only a necromancer can even come close, though the job is much more difficult for him as his disruptive abilities tend to cripple his opponent's offense moreso than his defense, on top of his raw damage being lower and less efficient.

Peace,
-CxE

Cherng Butter · May 31, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

You really do not have train your PvE character to get ready for PvP (PvP characters save time)

Mesmers are extremely powerful in PvP (yet specialized), but are often ignored in PvE (i made a tyrian mesmer and got bored at level 14, haha). They basically "shutdown" the enemy so the monk cannot cast anything because of lack of energy, the warrior kills himself because of attacking penalties, etc, but you can't have everything.

If you want a damage dealing caster that rocks feeble monster mobs, make a minion master necro (N/Mo). Your own army of undead will make quick work of all but the strongest enemies, and everybody wants one in their group!

helpmepls · May 31, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Hmm i guess im just looking for a direct big damage class ...what else is there besides warriors / assassins

Ensign · Jun 01, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpmepls

Hmm i guess im just looking for a direct big damage class ...what else is there besides warriors / assassins

There isn't a direct, big damage class in Guild Wars. Warriors and assassins are the best you'll find for large, consistent amounts of damage. Mesmers inflict a lot of virtual damage by disrupting defenses, and necromancers do a lot of buffing and debilitating.

If you absolutely insist on dealing direct damage from range, you'll want to make a ranger. You can Barrage mobs in PvE, and in PvP, well, you can at least assist the warriors with damage.

Peace,
-CxE

jummeth · Jun 01, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I just have to add, that warriors can do extreme damage as pressure and as a spike (huge damage in the shortest amount of time).

I have to warn you though, there are a lot of poor warriors out there who do neither. Just experiment a little, simply asking what the best class for PvP before you have even touched the game is quite frankly stupid. Using builds that you don't understand is an outcome of this.

Note that although warriors are very powerful class with lots of armour etc. Most PvP teams will pack proportional amounts of warrior hate to counter this. This is the beauty of Guild Wars, there is a counter to everything. No one build is uncounterable. Some are very easy to play and the margin for mistake is bigger, in that sense, warrior is probably your best choice.

Thom · Jun 01, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

By design, elementalists are suppose to be the big damage class. Problem is that they really aren't that effective and are incredibly easy to counter. Big damage simply isn't rewarded in guild wars as much as countering your opponents defence or stacking lots of little damage effects together. Basically elementalists are largely useless as a reliable source of damage and are currently played largely for their utility value.

I still feel that mesmers are as close as you come to "unstoppable" in guild wars, but they are largely reactive and damage is secondary to shutting down. If you have a player completely shutdown, you can finish him off with a relatively weak damage spell or even a wand. A good mesmer should be able to largely shutdown most anything and the goal is to substancially pressure more than one target.

If you can get over the idea of direct damage and substitute in the idea of effective damage, you'll have the most fun playing a necro. If you want to stick with ranged direct damage, go with the ranger but be warned that you'll be doing tons of utility stuff as well in high end pvp. If you just want to deal direct damage, play a warrior. If you want to be a good guild wars player, suck it up and play a monk.

helpmepls · Jun 01, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Thom, can u tell me what kind of mesmer you recommend? like the pvp template or what not

Thom · Jun 01, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

As with anything Guild Wars, it is really easy to change things up so it really depends on where you are and what role you need to play. Fiddle there is more than enough fine tuning you can do to fit your playing style.

See the sticky in the Mesmer forum.

Metanoia · Jun 03, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Second perhaps is warrior; yes, there are a billion wammos out there in PvE land, but a solid PvP warrior is more rare and much more respected. All balanced builds and many other builds seem to accomodate for at least one warrior.

Could you expand on that a little? There seems to be very little in-depth information on the actual role(s) of a Warrior in PvP. Any high-end Warrior insight would be most helpful. ^_^